Post in which Jara does discuss Kara/Lee
Mar. 26th, 2005 07:56 pmBecause
ilanabean42 asked and this way I just have to point and say "go read there".
First of all, I want to make it clear that I recognise Kara/Lee as semi canon. I just don't believe in the ship as something that will work. My theory is that Kara/Lee is doomed to fail because whatever they have between them is there for all the wrong reasons. So here in semi organised points my arguments on why I do believe that this ship is damned to fail.
I have already seen a lot of speculation about who Kara met first; Zak or Lee. I actually tend to lean towards the latter because they do seem to have a lot of history together and I find it hard to believe this happened after Zak's death. (From what I gather Kara and Lee didn't see each other much after the funeral as Kara got assigned to the Galactica and seems to be taking Adama's side in the argument. But that's a whole different post.) I believe that Zak was Kara's one big love. That after a whole lot of crap, Kara met someone who she felt good with, maybe even at peace. There is not much to base this on, but I think it's Kara's character that convinces me here the most. She strikes me as someone who would not easily agree to get married, the fact that she did get engaged seems to speak for how much she did love Zak. Any theories on how Zak was second choice or how she really fell in love with Lee, but settled for Zak are a load of bull, IMO. Kara does not settle. Kara wants, Kara gets. If she had anything with Lee before the miniseries, I think it must have happened before she met Zak. So yeah, ancient history IF (and I highly doubt it) they had something going on.
Now looking at this from Lee's side, I do can see how he might have had something for Kara but never acted upon it because she was with his brother. Maybe he did feel like the one standing to the side and watching Kara sleep with almost everyone, but never getting a chance himself. Jumping forward in time, I do think that Lee has a crush on Kara as is evidenced in his behaviour in KLG. Actually, Lee's feelings are sorta second fiddle in this argument because while he has his own issues, I do believe Kara/Lee is mostly doomed because of Kara's issues and not so much Lee's.
Anyway. There is little in the series that strikes me as evidence for UST between Kara/Lee. Pretty much anything can be seen as friendship. I think the first indication of feelings between them was in Act of Contrition and You Can't Go Home Again where the two Adama's do pretty much anything to get Kara back. Adama sees her as a daughter, Lee... as a friend or maybe more if you want to think that. Again, I'll be open minded here and maybe Lee does feel something for her, but nothing that says "OMG he is in love". If anything, these episodes confirmed one thing; Kara is still not over Zak. She spent two years not telling anyone about her part in Zak's death. That's two years living with a sense of guilt and forcing herself to not let go of Zak. I think she believes that she has to live with this guilt forever, that it is her burden to carry. Now Adama has forgiven her, but I don't think she has forgiven herself. Perhaps a first step has been taken here for her to heal, but I think this one moment between her and Adama didn't magically make it go away. (In a way I see her refusal to get up and walk on her knee as a nice symbolism of her refusal to forgive herself for what happened to Zak.)
I have some issues with Colonial Day and KLG1. The Kara/Lee moments feel forced to me. Mostly because we have seen how much Kara is still holding on to the memory of Zak and how suddenly out of the blue we get this attraction between Kara and Lee. If TPTB had not made Kara shout out "Lee" while having sex with Gaius, I would have been able to understand her behaviour better. Actually, I might even have been more open to accepting the attraction if they had not done this. KLG would have worked perfectly without that one word.
Alas, the word was there so my over enthusiastic brain needs to analyse it. Why this sudden attraction from Kara towards Lee when only a few weeks ago (if we can believe the captions the entire S1 spans over 51 days) she was still clinging to Zak? I can only explain it as a projection of Kara's feelings for Zak onto Lee. I kinda like the image
anr created of Kara needing someone to push back. I wonder in what way Zak used to do that for her (or maybe he even took the need to push away). Lee is Zak's brother, someone who probably actively reminds her of Zak in one way or another (mannerism, behaviour or maybe just the mere fact that obviously the three of them used to hang out together). I can see Kara who has been going through some of the hardest experiences of her, trying to cling to what is familiar. Lee is familiar. And maybe that evening at the party, Lee struck something inside of her that felt comfortable and that she might like. Something that scared her and made her sleep with Gaius instead. Out comes the oh so unfortunate "Lee" cry and the next day she has to deal with an overly jealous Lee who apparently does have a thing for her after all. (Because the part and then the fallout of it does prove to me that Lee has feelings for Kara.)
I can imagine that shippers will take the arguments I just used to proof that Kara might actually feel something for Lee. However, I think what she feels for Lee is there for all the wrong reasons. It's more a projecting of her feelings for Zak than anything else. Perhaps she's thinking it might be nice to love Lee, that maybe it would be like what she had with Zak. Truth is, it's not. Lee is not Zak. Something that she might realise if they get more time. I think I might be open for Kara/Lee if they wait for another season or two (I only want maximum 3 seasons of BSG), if they give Kara the chance to get over Zak and see Lee for who he is and not whose brother he was. She also needs to forgive herself for what happened to Zak. Because if Kara and Lee get together without them resolving what I just pointed out, Zak will come to stand between them. Kara will still hate herself and come to realise that Lee can not replace Zak. Lee isn't dumb either and he will resent Kara for using him like that. Further more, I think Lee might end up hating Kara if she does not get over Zak and her feelings of guilt.
My point? Unless Lee and Kara change their relationship drastically and do not get over their issues, anything between them will fall to pieces and they'll hate each other. I like my ships to have some chances of making it. Kara/Lee strikes me as doomed.
Right, I think that's all I can possibly say on this pairing.
*eyes post* I'm sure you're full of typo's and the likes but I'm too lazy to read you through again at the moment. I'm also sure that I will regret ever writing you, too. (I need to stop talking to my post.)
First of all, I want to make it clear that I recognise Kara/Lee as semi canon. I just don't believe in the ship as something that will work. My theory is that Kara/Lee is doomed to fail because whatever they have between them is there for all the wrong reasons. So here in semi organised points my arguments on why I do believe that this ship is damned to fail.
I have already seen a lot of speculation about who Kara met first; Zak or Lee. I actually tend to lean towards the latter because they do seem to have a lot of history together and I find it hard to believe this happened after Zak's death. (From what I gather Kara and Lee didn't see each other much after the funeral as Kara got assigned to the Galactica and seems to be taking Adama's side in the argument. But that's a whole different post.) I believe that Zak was Kara's one big love. That after a whole lot of crap, Kara met someone who she felt good with, maybe even at peace. There is not much to base this on, but I think it's Kara's character that convinces me here the most. She strikes me as someone who would not easily agree to get married, the fact that she did get engaged seems to speak for how much she did love Zak. Any theories on how Zak was second choice or how she really fell in love with Lee, but settled for Zak are a load of bull, IMO. Kara does not settle. Kara wants, Kara gets. If she had anything with Lee before the miniseries, I think it must have happened before she met Zak. So yeah, ancient history IF (and I highly doubt it) they had something going on.
Now looking at this from Lee's side, I do can see how he might have had something for Kara but never acted upon it because she was with his brother. Maybe he did feel like the one standing to the side and watching Kara sleep with almost everyone, but never getting a chance himself. Jumping forward in time, I do think that Lee has a crush on Kara as is evidenced in his behaviour in KLG. Actually, Lee's feelings are sorta second fiddle in this argument because while he has his own issues, I do believe Kara/Lee is mostly doomed because of Kara's issues and not so much Lee's.
Anyway. There is little in the series that strikes me as evidence for UST between Kara/Lee. Pretty much anything can be seen as friendship. I think the first indication of feelings between them was in Act of Contrition and You Can't Go Home Again where the two Adama's do pretty much anything to get Kara back. Adama sees her as a daughter, Lee... as a friend or maybe more if you want to think that. Again, I'll be open minded here and maybe Lee does feel something for her, but nothing that says "OMG he is in love". If anything, these episodes confirmed one thing; Kara is still not over Zak. She spent two years not telling anyone about her part in Zak's death. That's two years living with a sense of guilt and forcing herself to not let go of Zak. I think she believes that she has to live with this guilt forever, that it is her burden to carry. Now Adama has forgiven her, but I don't think she has forgiven herself. Perhaps a first step has been taken here for her to heal, but I think this one moment between her and Adama didn't magically make it go away. (In a way I see her refusal to get up and walk on her knee as a nice symbolism of her refusal to forgive herself for what happened to Zak.)
I have some issues with Colonial Day and KLG1. The Kara/Lee moments feel forced to me. Mostly because we have seen how much Kara is still holding on to the memory of Zak and how suddenly out of the blue we get this attraction between Kara and Lee. If TPTB had not made Kara shout out "Lee" while having sex with Gaius, I would have been able to understand her behaviour better. Actually, I might even have been more open to accepting the attraction if they had not done this. KLG would have worked perfectly without that one word.
Alas, the word was there so my over enthusiastic brain needs to analyse it. Why this sudden attraction from Kara towards Lee when only a few weeks ago (if we can believe the captions the entire S1 spans over 51 days) she was still clinging to Zak? I can only explain it as a projection of Kara's feelings for Zak onto Lee. I kinda like the image
I can imagine that shippers will take the arguments I just used to proof that Kara might actually feel something for Lee. However, I think what she feels for Lee is there for all the wrong reasons. It's more a projecting of her feelings for Zak than anything else. Perhaps she's thinking it might be nice to love Lee, that maybe it would be like what she had with Zak. Truth is, it's not. Lee is not Zak. Something that she might realise if they get more time. I think I might be open for Kara/Lee if they wait for another season or two (I only want maximum 3 seasons of BSG), if they give Kara the chance to get over Zak and see Lee for who he is and not whose brother he was. She also needs to forgive herself for what happened to Zak. Because if Kara and Lee get together without them resolving what I just pointed out, Zak will come to stand between them. Kara will still hate herself and come to realise that Lee can not replace Zak. Lee isn't dumb either and he will resent Kara for using him like that. Further more, I think Lee might end up hating Kara if she does not get over Zak and her feelings of guilt.
My point? Unless Lee and Kara change their relationship drastically and do not get over their issues, anything between them will fall to pieces and they'll hate each other. I like my ships to have some chances of making it. Kara/Lee strikes me as doomed.
Right, I think that's all I can possibly say on this pairing.
*eyes post* I'm sure you're full of typo's and the likes but I'm too lazy to read you through again at the moment. I'm also sure that I will regret ever writing you, too. (I need to stop talking to my post.)
no subject
Date: 2005-03-26 07:40 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-03-26 07:42 pm (UTC)Well, most of the time.no subject
Date: 2005-03-26 07:57 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-03-26 08:07 pm (UTC)No. *g*
no subject
Date: 2005-03-26 08:30 pm (UTC)