Bastille Day

[woodface]

I really want to know more about Sagittaron's position within the Colonies. The BSG Wikipedia seems to speculate that the exploitation of Sagittaron already happened before the Colonies were unified, but it didn't cease afterwards. It's easy to see the Colonies as this somewhat utopic society that got wiped out, but it really wasn't. In 'Water' Roslin already gives some indication when she mentions the death of those 15 people because of a decision Adar made. Makes me wonder what other issues the Colonies had to deal with beside Sagittaron.

What inrigues me is that Dualla seems to completely disagree with Zarek. It's making me wonder if there is a sort of caste system on Sagittaron. But then what does he mean with "stumps"? Is he referring to how the other colonies see the sagittarans? Again, the latter doesn't seem likely to me. But if that is not the case, then he must be referring to a lower class on Sagittaron itself. So is there a caste system anyway? It would explain why Dualla seems to be less likely to take Zarek's side.

Maybe if we knew whether the goverment building Zarek attacked was Colonial or Sagittaran? If it was Colonial, that would probably confirm Zarek's hatred towards the Colonial goverment and how it has treated Sagittaron. But then, shouldn't Dualla have some problems with it too? So I am leaning towards the explanation that he attacked a Sagittaron goverment building and that it was an already internal situation, similar to a caste system that probably was excepted by the Colonial goverment as well.

Err, does that make sense?

On a completely different, the Lee factor. I have seem some people say that Lee is not someone to stick to the rules and disobeys orders. Most of the times they use KLG to back this up. I disagree, though. Lee strikes me as someone who holds the rules as holy and will follow orders on the condition that those orders are for the good of the system he believes in. Yes, Lee read Zarek's book at the Academy. I think he probably even agreed with some of Zarek's points, but I also think that Lee believes in the Colonial goverment as the way of making life better for people. The only reason he could be a part of the military is because he truly believes that military is protecting something that is worth it. He however does not believe that he should not question his actions. So yes, he does disobey some orders, but only if by disobeying them he believes to be protecting those ideals. It really is a matter of the exception to the rule.

Ah, Adama. He really does still think that his ship and his crew are one side and the people and Roslin the other. Which is somewhat in contradiction with the words he spoke in Water about not wanting to turn the people into the enemies of the state.

Kara, Kara, Kara. How much do I love thee? A whole lot. Damn, she's hot and such a bad influence on Boxey.

Seriously, how can anyone not see that Baltar is completely making everything up?

I think I just ran out of things to say. Except; ewwwl half naked Tyrol. Oh and Cally kicks so much ass.

ETA: - Zarek said "god" not "gods".
- Now they spelled it "frak" and "frakking".

Comments

[sideofzen.livejournal.com]

I completely fell in love with Kara during Bastille Day. The ready room scene is beautiful. The sunglasses.. the attitude..the cigar.. oh, be still my heart.


On Lee.. You know, I would be very unsurprised if Lee's character arc included him leaving the military and work for the government. With Kara this season, she starts out saying how she doesn't want the job of CAG, but at the end, Adama is pushing her towards more responsibility. I would also be completely unsurprised if Kara becomes the CAG at some point. And just seeing 33 last Friday and Kara's whole speech to Lee in the hanger.. I'd LOVE to see her as the CAG.

[woodface]

Hee, she kicks so much ass in that scene. *happy sigh*

Hmmm, interesting thoughts. Heh, Kara as CAG would mean trouble. I like it ;o)

[livilla.livejournal.com]

Oh and Cally kicks so much ass.

Yes. Yes, she does. *LOVES HER SO*

[woodface]

*giggles* *pats*

[livilla.livejournal.com]

She bit his ear off! *worship*

[jo-lasalle.livejournal.com]

Saggitaron is a tricky subject. My own speculation is going in the direction of participation/representation, and that Zarek's beef is with the Colonial government. At the moment I expect the conflict to have been something very political, with legitimate points on both sides. I'd expect any kind of oppression or exploitation to definitely have been more informal than formal, mostly because if it had been something obviously Evil (tm), I think we would have heard more about it.

From the different reactions we've seen, I'd assume it would have to be something more grey than a caste of people being suppressed. Something like Saggitaron constantly being outvoted on matters of central funding, influence etc. Or Colonial meddling in internal affairs; given Zarek's different political outlook, one scenario that crossed my mind was that there was a chance, or that he saw a chance, to change the political system on Saggitaron according to his beliefs and that the Colonial government interfered.

I don't assume the Colonies are a perfect society. Roslin's comment about Adar suggests that there was unrest at times. But I do tend to put some stock in the fact that people like Roslin, Adama and Lee, all of whom have brains and as well as principles, continuously act like the basics of Colonial democracy, never mind the odd glitch here and there, seem to work and are expected to work.

And then there's Colonial Day, in which it is suggested that they're proceeding as closely to pre-Cylon attack procedures as possible, and there is no evidence of any formal discrimination against Saggitaron.

[woodface]

Ooooo, all some very nice points. I think you might be right.

Although there still remains the "stumps" remark and one thing bugs me. Why ban a book? A good working democracy should ban anything and allow freedom of speech. Of course it might have been a personal ban around Zarek because Adar clearly considered the man to be a risk.

[woodface]

Ugh, okay. That should be "shouldn't ban".

[jo-lasalle.livejournal.com]

And I just realised I kept spelling Sagittaron like a very misspelled thing. :-)

[jo-lasalle.livejournal.com]

Although there still remains the "stumps" remark and one thing bugs me. Why ban a book? A good working democracy shouldn't ban anything and allow freedom of speech.

That surprised me, too, though the concept isn't as alien to me as it might be to others.

It surprised me so much because from what we've seen so far, the political system seems to be modelled after the American one, which AFAIK has no banning of any books.

OTOH, I'm from a country where certain books are banned, in the sense that it's illegal to buy them, sell them or otherwise distribute them. It's a handful, and it has to do with German history. It's not like the practice isn't questioned by people, but I don't think anyone would argue this disqualifies Germany as a democracy.

So to me, the idea of a banned book, while surprising, wasn't so much shocking as intriguing, particularly with my point of reference of "books a government might want to ban"; what specific buttons would Zarek have to push in that book that would get him banned?

Though, of course, the easier answer to that could simply be that the Colonies do have quite a few deficiencies when it comes to their democracy, and the book didn't have to be that "out there" to get banned.

I don't have an opinion on the stumps -- I would have to watch BD again. Oh, the hardship!

[thepouncer.livejournal.com]

What you've said here makes me wonder if Sagittaron was akin to West Virginia or Arkansas - economically disadvantaged, its people seen as rubes. And if there was some natural resource that the Colonial government was exploiting through means Zarek saw as unfair? "Those poor coal miners need my help!"

[jo-lasalle.livejournal.com]

I could see something like that, yes. Some structural, not insignificant disadvantage, but not one that's actually formalised and written down as law.

I've been trying to come up with RL analogies to the kind of situation I suspect at the bottom of that conflict, but I kept drawing a blank. I don't know anything about West Virginia or Arkansas in that context, but from what you're describing, it sounds like a good example.