BSG ponderings (no spoilers)

[woodface]

It highly amuses me that some of the male BSG audience seem to feel threatened by the strong female characters in their show. OMG! A female president! This of course is probably a more american reaction as it will take another century or so before the US will have a woman as president (let alone a black woman, and gay is even further away). So yes, it highly amuses and entertains me when another viewer goes on a tantrum how the male characters in the series are weak and the woman are strong. That is, it amuses me when it doesn't annoy me to no end. Just shows how fixated they must be on the issue and how little attention they are paying to the series.

All characters in BSG seem to equally have their strengths and flaws no matter what their gender. This is half of what I truly love about the show. No one is holding out a gender card. Heh, the only one who does seem to be the weak character is Gaius and that's partly because he tends to see women as sexobjects (mind you, only a small part). I find that the only show that does slightly compare to this is Farscape where the Peacekeepers seem to have equality among genders as well. But then they deny all emotions, so that's not very good either. Either way, it's funny how part of the male audience feels insecure because the women have as much balls as the men. Poor them.

On another note, I was wondering about the Cylons. Is it possible that whoever programmed them made them so that they believe in the gods? I was playing with the idea that the Cylons could have been programmed to be religious and that this programming is actually what caused their rebellion. Imagine being a Cylon and being faced with a religion that tells you that all men were made by god. Religion gives purpose to a human's life and explains the origins of it. Only, these Cylons would be faced with the fact that they were made by the humans and not by the gods. Slight snag here because their purpose would be to serve the humans and the sacred scrolls do not give Cylons a soul but only the humans. Identity crisis much? So they leave the humans and come back convince that there is only one God who meant for them to take the humans place. They find a way to say "we do have a purpose and its larger than just serving you and yes, in fact, we do have a soul and not a program".

Comments

[liminalliz.livejournal.com]

Dude, outside Gaius, which of the male characters are WEAK?! I think men are just scared to have a number of so very powerful women next to these VERY strong men.

A good scene to describe this is Helo and Boomer running in the underground tunnel. Helo is WEAK because he is HUMAN and she's a MACHINE. Hello?! He is *not* weak. Holy ccccaaa-raaap.

*endlessly confused at stupid people*

[woodface]

I think their biggest issue is that Starbuck is a better pilot than Lee. (Omg, you're going to love friday's ep for Lee btw.) And that Tigh is a drunk. *shrugs*

The Apollo/Starbuck competition is completely stupid btw because Lee is a Captain. If they open their eyes they'd realise that while Kara might be the better pilot, she is considered a reliability when it comes to command.

All characters have their own issues and they're definitely not gender based.

[liminalliz.livejournal.com]

And Starbuck has emotional issues that aren't resolved and is a gambler as well as a chain smoker....?

*agrees*

[woodface]

*snickers* Kara has HUGE issues.

[rhi-silverflame.livejournal.com]

Hell with that. Girl's got subscriptions.

[woodface]

*laughs* Uh huh.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

That's actually one of the things I *love* about this series. There is no 'gender issue'. EVERYONE is equal, pilot, mechanic, officer, whatever. There's no dichotomy between the sexes (the heads are unisex), there's no need to cater to either sex.

And I love it. That was actually the thing I love about that shot of the pilot's briefing. Half are women.

But there's no massive, "Look! The girls can do it, too, yay!" message. It's all, "These people can survive and do what has to be done." without gender coming in *any*where.

*headshake* Men boggle me.

[woodface]

Exactly. They don't make an issue and go pointing "look everyone is equal". It's there but it's on the background as if this is the most natural thing ever. As it probably should be.

Heh, it's probably the teenage kids watching who have issues with it ;o)

[liminalliz.livejournal.com]

However, I'd argue that gender is a HUUUGE part of the show, but in a different way than in other shows (like SG). ... and I'll defend this later...*runs for coffee as is dead on feet*

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

well, it does, in a way. If we look at the Cylons, for instance. Gender has been an issue - Six is fallible and tripping up Baltar. CapriBoomer is falling for Helo. Doral the newspaper guy is cold as stone (that's just because all journalists are asshats). And Leoben wanted to convert Kara....

[woodface]

And Kara's frakking Sam.

[havocthecat]

*bookmarks post to respond to later*

[woodface]

*snickers* Okay

[havocthecat]

Heh. I was at work; I needed to remind myself to reply when I had time. :P

[woodface]

*g* Duely noted.

[havocthecat]

Now, mind you, I"m home, but I have a sick baby. It's just a no-win situation for me, isn't it?

[woodface]

Awwwwwww =o( Apparently not. *cuddles*

[havocthecat]

He's asleep now, finally. Yay! And thanks. *cuddles back*

[woodface]

Sleepy or KO? ;o)

[havocthecat]

Sleepy. Though there were times when he was crying that I wished his cough syrup had codeine to knock him out with.

[lisayaeger.livejournal.com]

I haven't at all been paying attention to the BSG fandom, but I had to respond from my own experience watching the show with hubby. He was an original series fan, and I don't think he was opposed to Starbuck being a woman (He couldn't care less about the president, and, in fact, thinks a woman would do a better job, but then my dog would do a better job than Bush, but I digress...), but rather wasn't expecting it, so when he watched for the first time, and there she was, I think he was taken aback because it was different. Not better or worse necessarily. But, after watching it and getting to know the characters, I don't think he cares because he's used to it now. Which probably doesn't actually respond to your point except that if the audience went into it with an open mind, then I think they could appreciate the characters for who they are, regardless of gender, which is how we should be looking at the world anyway, but that's the point of scifi, isn't it? To make us see things outside of our little box and throw in a little hope for humanity for good measure. /ramble

[woodface]

Yeah, I guess it is. And maybe you have a point.

Oy and Starbuck being a woman is another issue that I'm not going to poke with a long stick (well not today anyway).

Mmmmmmmm Starbuck.

[lisayaeger.livejournal.com]

poke with a long stick

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Jack.

;-)

[woodface]

*eyes you*

[lisayaeger.livejournal.com]

Hey, you started it!

:-D

[woodface]

I was talking about BSG, how the frak did I start anything?

[lisayaeger.livejournal.com]

*laughs*

You mention poking with a long stick to me?!?!? You *know* where that's going to lead!!

[woodface]

Actually, I strangely enough did not know that. Am also kinda disturbed now.

[nandamai]

YES to why the way this show treats gender is so fab and DOUBLE YES to the silly males who can't even figure out that the reason they hate Starbuck and Roslin *and* Boomer is that they're threatened by women who are not doormats. Yeesh. Highly amusing, though. That one in particular on the comms ... virus x or whatever ... oy.

On another note, I was wondering about the Cylons. Is it possible that whoever programmed them made them so that they believe in the gods? I was playing with the idea that the Cylons could have been programmed to be religious and that this programming is actually what caused their rebellion.

You know, I think this is possible. It may be Moore's way of playing with the "god gene" kind of theory.

[woodface]

Ugh, didn't know who you were talking about so I did some research and found this:

I don't see her making any contribution that any other guy couldn't have made. Just because she might've had some sort of extra-military relationship with Zak, doesn't really improve or enhance the storyline, in any way, shape or form. If Starbuck had remained male, they still could've been best friends, and the storyline wouldn't have been essentially changed. As for her acting, it doesn't stand out as being anything bad, in the fact that she very effectively conveys a cocky, arrogant idiot that really doesn't have any place in any military organization, aside from a Navy-analog (which has notoriously loose and lax discipline, regardless of anything they may say), which is nothing close to the Army or Marine Corps in terms of respect and discipline.

Right. I don't think that need any comments. I also keep wondering why those fans of TOS keep trying to cling to it and somehow insist on watching TNS even if they keep getting annoyed at everything.

You know, I think this is possible. It may be Moore's way of playing with the "god gene" kind of theory.

I really can't wait to find out more about the Cylons and the religion part. Scifi has been pondering about AI for a while now and the idea that they would rebel isn't all that new. Letting the Cylons rebel over religion however is not something I remember seeing before. Which someone reminds me to Space Above and Beyond where the AI's rebelled over the mere sentence of "Take a chance".

[starbuck92.livejournal.com]

Outside of the one icon batch and the occasional fic I've read (speaking of, how goes yours?? Kara/Sam??), I've generally stayed away from what I consider to be BSG fandom. I'm on the bsg_chatter comm on LJ, but I haven't checked it in weeks.

What I did find surprising is that while poking through the boards at theforce.net (at least, I think it was that board; my brain is a bit fried this week), I found a BSG thread. My curiosity piqued, I decided to take a look. Enter nonstop negativity. Everyone was talking down about the new series and how much it sucked. I was a bit surprised, to say the least, but then I have heard some SW friends of mine tear into the original series because they felt it was a SW rip-off. (They feel much differently about the new series.)

A lot of the negativity had to do with what you stated - changing some of the original characters into females. Most stated such thoughts that the only reason it was done was to draw more female viewers to the series. I don't think this holds any truth. If they'd kept characters like Starbuck and Boomer as males, I would have still given it a try.

What can you do but just deal with the fact that there are people who don't like the reimagined series? Frak 'em. I love it, and I love all the dynamics of the male AND female characters. :D

*pets new Starbuck icon* *g*

[woodface]

Ugh, lj never told me I had more comments here! *scowls at it*

But yeah, a lot of people are also entering this fandom with a "we like the old series and must hate any changes" atttitude. It would have been pretty boring if they just stuck to the old series and did it with new characters. I'm glad they cut loose from it and gave the whole thing a different feel.

Actually, maybe it goes so far that one can wonder whether or not they actually needed to keep the names of the old characters? Then again, the original Starbuck was never called Kara, iirc ;o)

*calls your icon god*

[starbuck92.livejournal.com]

lol, no worries - I'm so behind on comments and my flist page, it's a stark reminder of why I'm supposed to be taking time off from LJ. I hate not having the time to respond and post to everything of interest to me! Grrr.

I finally got a copy of the mini (bless Suncoast on the Riverwalk, the only frakkin' store in SA that had it for sale) and watched the lowdown special. I was interested in hearing Mr. Hatch's opinion of the old series compared to the new. It's been easy for me to forget that there are people who grew up loving the original, and feel appalled that anyone would dare try to alter their beloved series from what they remember. But as either Ron Moore or Eddie said (only watched it once so far :P), the old fans who are refusing to have anything to do with the new series are missing out. Their loss.

Oh, yeah - the chat with the original and new Starbuck at Starbucks? Bwah! I think there's a full-length article convering their conversation somewhere.

*bows down before the icon*

[woodface]

Bwah, we don't have that many extra's on the DVD's. *sulks*

[starbuck92.livejournal.com]

Seriously?

The mini DVD didn't have a whole lot on it. There was the mini on one disc, with commentary. Then the second disc had the lowdown special Sci-Fi aired, along with some deleted scenes.

I'm hoping the series DVDs will have lots and lots of goodies.

[woodface]

No second disc, no commentary, only 20 minutes low down, no deleted scenes. Bah.

[starbuck92.livejournal.com]

Meh. I'd send you a copy, but I don't have a DVD burner. :\

[woodface]

S'okay, familyarchives said she'd include a copy when she copies S1 and S2 of Farscape for me. Thank you, tohugh *snuggles*

Roslin

[taiamu.livejournal.com]

Came here via Metafandom.

/Thank you/ for mentioning this. I was really shocked that the negativity that the character of Roslin is receiving. Sure she messes up occasionally. You know why? Because she's human. Starbuck and Lee and Cmdr. Adama and everyone else mess up, too.

Frankly, I'm less interested in Roslin's story as a /female/ president than in the fact that she's someone who probably never thought she'd be in the position she is in now. I mean, 43rd in line? It probably never occured to her.

And that has nothing to do with the character's gender.

Re: Roslin

[woodface]

Hi! Sorry I didn't respond earlier. I never got a comment from lj *scowls at lj and hotmail*

I completely agree. I have seen people tear down Roslin while I think that for someone in her position, she is doing a great job. She definitely never expected to become president and it's interesting to watch her try and tackle the job. I really do love the character. She can be a strong and determined leader, but on the other side she has a very gentle quality to her in the way she interacts with the people around her.

In a way, I think that the relationship between Roslin and Adama kind of represents the gender issues in the series. Two strong and capable leaders, who each have their own flaws and yet come to some level of respect. I so love their dynamic.

Errr, I'm rambling. *g* Sorry for the late response.