Weir/Sheppard vs Janeway/Chakotay
Oct. 19th, 2004 04:42 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
woodfaceI was pondering over the Weir/Sheppard dynamic in the series. I must disappoint you and warn in advance that I am not talking about a ship pairing here. I'm just talking about dynamic.
Let's be honest to ourselves about this. Weir/Sheppard is nothing more than a copy of Janeway/Chakotay, and a bad one too. Why do I make this comparison? Let's see. In Voyager Janeway and Chakotay were put together to cross the gap between the maquis and starfleet crew. Both professionally and emotionally they grew to respect each other, their example being essential to both crews merging and working together.
Weir and Sheppard are in a similar position. Only, Weir is in command of a mostly military crew while she as a civilian is supposed to defend the rights of the scientists as well. Sheppard is her 2IC but represents the driving force of Atlantis. While the writers are desperately trying to make us believe that they respect each other, that respect does not go nearly as far as J/C went. Sure, Sheppard has a sort of sense of duty and will listen to Weir but only when it serves him right. He makes decisions when he likes it and very much disregards what Weir thinks, putting her on the spot and forcing her to go along with the idea. She can then wag a finger at him and tell him he shouldn't do it, but point is that he only will listen if he feels like it.
The interrogations they did when they thought they had a spy proved that Weir has no control whatsoever over the military part of her crew. At the same time, she squashes down the scientists in favour of what the military part thinks. My believe is that if something would happen and Sheppard and Weir came to a disagreement, the military side would follow Sheppard. More than likely a lot of the scientists would do too(of course McKay would only pick his own side).
Weir, in my opinion, lacks authority. If that Colonel hadn't been killed, she would probably constantly be butting heads with him and I'm really not sure if she would have been able to hold her own. It is Sheppard's decision to follow her that keeps things together for now. My opinion is that while Sheppard respects Weir personally, the professional respect is still lacking. The writers are trying to copy the relationship between Janeway and Chakotay but have failed to make it actually work. Weir just does not have a believable position in Atlantis.
Let's be honest to ourselves about this. Weir/Sheppard is nothing more than a copy of Janeway/Chakotay, and a bad one too. Why do I make this comparison? Let's see. In Voyager Janeway and Chakotay were put together to cross the gap between the maquis and starfleet crew. Both professionally and emotionally they grew to respect each other, their example being essential to both crews merging and working together.
Weir and Sheppard are in a similar position. Only, Weir is in command of a mostly military crew while she as a civilian is supposed to defend the rights of the scientists as well. Sheppard is her 2IC but represents the driving force of Atlantis. While the writers are desperately trying to make us believe that they respect each other, that respect does not go nearly as far as J/C went. Sure, Sheppard has a sort of sense of duty and will listen to Weir but only when it serves him right. He makes decisions when he likes it and very much disregards what Weir thinks, putting her on the spot and forcing her to go along with the idea. She can then wag a finger at him and tell him he shouldn't do it, but point is that he only will listen if he feels like it.
The interrogations they did when they thought they had a spy proved that Weir has no control whatsoever over the military part of her crew. At the same time, she squashes down the scientists in favour of what the military part thinks. My believe is that if something would happen and Sheppard and Weir came to a disagreement, the military side would follow Sheppard. More than likely a lot of the scientists would do too(of course McKay would only pick his own side).
Weir, in my opinion, lacks authority. If that Colonel hadn't been killed, she would probably constantly be butting heads with him and I'm really not sure if she would have been able to hold her own. It is Sheppard's decision to follow her that keeps things together for now. My opinion is that while Sheppard respects Weir personally, the professional respect is still lacking. The writers are trying to copy the relationship between Janeway and Chakotay but have failed to make it actually work. Weir just does not have a believable position in Atlantis.
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*spoiler warnings for... er... later-season Voyager*
Date: 2004-10-19 05:47 pm (UTC)I don't know -- I feel like all your arguments go to show that they are not carbon-copies of Janeway and Chakotay.
I also really don't WANT a happy we-all-work-together-so-smoothly family at this point. It's only the middle of season one! THEN what will we have to look forward to? Fighting the
oh-so-fascinatingWraith?My opinion is that while Sheppard respects Weir personally, the professional respect is still lacking.
I agree. I just assumed that was on purpose. In general, the Stargate team of writers are hit-and-miss, and they're having trouble fitting Weir into their preformulated way of thinking about A Team Going Off And Doing Things. I hope they took the hiatus to sit and think about how to make her useful, because harping on all of Sheppard's decisions just to give her airtime is... annoying, and she really doesn't have to be.
At least most of their arguments have not been won by Sheppard appealing to her emotions. What made me THE MOST mad about Janeway all through the series was her "womanish" tendency to cave to emotional pressure. (Like... the example I'm thinking of is when B'Elanna shows up and is all "I want to kill myself for spiritual purposes," and Janeway's all "No," very reasonably. And then B'Elanna's all "But... you remind me of my mommy and I miss my mommy!" and Janeway's all "Well, when you put it like THAT...") I don't have a problem with captains/commanders taking other people's ideas into consideration, but nothing in that argument changed except that B'Elanna appealed to her emotions. It was STILL a bad call to let her do it.
It would probably bother me less with Weir, because she is not a military commander and doesn't have the same clearly defined role. The other thing is... yeah, she has final say on decisions about Atlantis, but how much autonomy does Sheppard and the military really have? Maybe they are *supposed* to be this disjointed? Wish they would explain that.
I like that the professional respect between Sheppard and Weir is still wobbly and hope some nice arcs will show up to pull that together. Of course, they will probably just forget about it and magically they will work well together, but that is my HOPE.
I really, really hope that Weir and Sheppard do not become Janeway and Chakotay. I already panic a bit whenever I think Weir has the potential to "go Janeway" (read: "go totally batshit crazy by the later seasons because of this responsibility"), but there are a lot of reasons why she won't -- most obviously, that her crew knew what they were getting into when they signed on. This isn't her fault that they're out there. Yes, she'd like to get them home, but guilt isn't the main motivator (poor Janeway. *hugs her*).
And Sheppard is less of a goober than Chakotay. Because I think there is no way he could be more of a goober than Chakotay. Aww. But he was such a good goober.
So... to sum up: I agree that Weir's role needs work, a lot, or at least explanation of what they're doing with her. As I watch the show more it starts to feel less and less like Voyager, though in the first episode I was like "Holy God, it's Voyager." I HOPE they are not trying to recreate Janeway and Chakotay, and I don't really think that they are -- J/C were #1 and #2 commanding a single, unified chain of command -- here we have Weir leading the scientists that Sheppard has no say over and Sheppard reporting in to her about what the military does.
Re: *spoiler warnings for... er... later-season Voyager*
Date: 2004-10-20 12:00 am (UTC)Heh, perhaps but the whole premises constantly makes me think of them.
I also really don't WANT a happy we-all-work-together-so-smoothly family at this point. It's only the middle of season one!
True but these are rather big issues if you ask me.
I hope they took the hiatus to sit and think about how to make her useful, because harping on all of Sheppard's decisions just to give her airtime is... annoying, and she really doesn't have to be.
Exactly.
I don't have a problem with captains/commanders taking other people's ideas into consideration, but nothing in that argument changed except that B'Elanna appealed to her emotions. It was STILL a bad call to let her do it.
Dude, I need to rewatch this ep. It's all so far away.
The other thing is... yeah, she has final say on decisions about Atlantis, but how much autonomy does Sheppard and the military really have? Maybe they are *supposed* to be this disjointed?
Hmmmm, that's an interesting thought but seeing how they put Weir effectively in command, I doubt it. That way she also restricted that one scientist tells me that they want everyone to work together smoothly and not seperately.
I like that the professional respect between Sheppard and Weir is still wobbly and hope some nice arcs will show up to pull that together.
Respect clearly has to be gained but up until now Weir seems incapable of handling Sheppard until he starts to turn around about her.
I really, really hope that Weir and Sheppard do not become Janeway and Chakotay.
Oh no, I don't want that to happen either. But right now, they strike me as a dysfunctional Janeway and Chakotay. Does that make sense? *g*
What's a goober?
J/C were #1 and #2 commanding a single, unified chain of command -- here we have Weir leading the scientists that Sheppard has no say over and Sheppard reporting in to her about what the military does.
Hmmmm, I think I see the chain of command differently as you. Weir is above everyone, Sheppard is like Jack was to Hammond (and yes, scientists are not underneath his command). The problem is that Weir has no control over Sheppard and Sheppard goes off on making decisions that Jack knew Hammond would never allow him to make.
It might be the intention of the writers for now to have them be this way. I'm not sure. I get the feeling that the writers somehow expect us to realise that Weir has everything to say but then have Sheppard be stubborn. While I doubt Sheppard is gonna follow the example of the Bounty, I find that this whole situation colours the way Weir is portrayed. So yeah, I agree; they need to work on Weir's character and make her believable.