Of Pairings, Slash and threesomes
Apr. 18th, 2004 12:25 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
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elly427 made me contemplate my pairings and I can't remember my dream except for the fact that suzvoy was in it and we were trying to get to Leuven.
Everyone on my list knows that I'm a shipper. I have OTP's and one in particular: Sam and Jack. Most of my pairings outside SG are het as well but there are some exceptions of femslash OTP. Still, what binds all those pairings together is that they're canon (yes, even Aragorn/Eowyn is canon to an extent).
Male slash? Well, here's the tricky part; I don't mind slash but it has to be canon. So no, I don't get Jack/Daniel if it's one step beyond friendship because Jack. Is. Not. Gay. I have read books, seen movies and even series (although these are rarer) with m/m pairings and I enjoy it but it doesn't make me squee. Why? Projection. It's as simple as that. I can not project unto m/m and that takes away any thrill for me. What is the point of a slash pairing when I know that both guys would never be interested in me? Now no, that doesn't mean that I imagine I'm Sam but yes, it reflects on my own hopes and believes. A guy wanting to hump another guy; dude, I don't get anything out of that.
Threesomes. Ah, here the other shoe drops. I like threesomes on a sexual level only (even so far that I might not always need a woman in the pairing to enjoy it but if I get to chose m/f/m is my preference). But, here's the tricky part; I don't get threesomes on an emotional level. And why do I read fanfic? Yups, you've guessed it; I read fanfic for the pshychological and emotional insight. I can get some threesome (or more) fics on one condition; my OTP needs to stand out. I need to have some hold on where I can say that they are special and it goes beyond the physical aspect of it all. I need to believe that while Daniel or Jonas or whoever touches Sam as well, her mind is more with Jack. Those fics are rare. Most multiple partner fics have Sam tied to Daniel and/or Daniel tied to Jack. And I'm sorry but I don't see either pairings. I just simply don't and never will. So yeah, on a sexual level sure, it can be hot. But to let me appreciate it as a fic, I need Sam/Jack in it. And don't give me that "but they love each other equally" crap because they don't. Maybe the problem is that most threesomes are written by slasher and just the idea of Daniel and Jack humouring Sam appals me. Another thing that makes me unreceptive towards it is my view of Jack. I see him as the possessive type. I find it hard to imagine Jack sharing Sam in any way. I see him more likely to hit Daniel a nice shiner for even trying to touch her than I see him moving aside and giving Daniel a go at Sam (and I have read that and was utterly disgusted by Jack's behaviour).
So there you have it. That's pretty much how I see my pairings and how and why I read certain fics. Anyone want to write my thesis?
elly427 made me contemplate my pairings and I can't remember my dream except for the fact that suzvoy was in it and we were trying to get to Leuven.Everyone on my list knows that I'm a shipper. I have OTP's and one in particular: Sam and Jack. Most of my pairings outside SG are het as well but there are some exceptions of femslash OTP. Still, what binds all those pairings together is that they're canon (yes, even Aragorn/Eowyn is canon to an extent).
Male slash? Well, here's the tricky part; I don't mind slash but it has to be canon. So no, I don't get Jack/Daniel if it's one step beyond friendship because Jack. Is. Not. Gay. I have read books, seen movies and even series (although these are rarer) with m/m pairings and I enjoy it but it doesn't make me squee. Why? Projection. It's as simple as that. I can not project unto m/m and that takes away any thrill for me. What is the point of a slash pairing when I know that both guys would never be interested in me? Now no, that doesn't mean that I imagine I'm Sam but yes, it reflects on my own hopes and believes. A guy wanting to hump another guy; dude, I don't get anything out of that.
Threesomes. Ah, here the other shoe drops. I like threesomes on a sexual level only (even so far that I might not always need a woman in the pairing to enjoy it but if I get to chose m/f/m is my preference). But, here's the tricky part; I don't get threesomes on an emotional level. And why do I read fanfic? Yups, you've guessed it; I read fanfic for the pshychological and emotional insight. I can get some threesome (or more) fics on one condition; my OTP needs to stand out. I need to have some hold on where I can say that they are special and it goes beyond the physical aspect of it all. I need to believe that while Daniel or Jonas or whoever touches Sam as well, her mind is more with Jack. Those fics are rare. Most multiple partner fics have Sam tied to Daniel and/or Daniel tied to Jack. And I'm sorry but I don't see either pairings. I just simply don't and never will. So yeah, on a sexual level sure, it can be hot. But to let me appreciate it as a fic, I need Sam/Jack in it. And don't give me that "but they love each other equally" crap because they don't. Maybe the problem is that most threesomes are written by slasher and just the idea of Daniel and Jack humouring Sam appals me. Another thing that makes me unreceptive towards it is my view of Jack. I see him as the possessive type. I find it hard to imagine Jack sharing Sam in any way. I see him more likely to hit Daniel a nice shiner for even trying to touch her than I see him moving aside and giving Daniel a go at Sam (and I have read that and was utterly disgusted by Jack's behaviour).
So there you have it. That's pretty much how I see my pairings and how and why I read certain fics. Anyone want to write my thesis?
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no subject
Date: 2004-04-18 11:07 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-04-18 11:09 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-04-18 11:10 am (UTC)I can buy non-canon slash, but for me it depends on what you consider non-canon. Sam and Frodo? That, to me? Hobbit love. The subtext is barely subtext, happy Sam-gets-married ending and all.
Anyway, what you said that had me yes!yes!-ing in a purely non-sexual way. Ahem.
Threesomes. Ah, here the other shoe drops. I like threesomes on a sexual level only *snip* But, here's the tricky part; I don't get threesomes on an emotional level.
Yes! Ahem. But yes, I agree almost all of the time. I am so outing myself as a shameless smut hussy here, but the majority of the threesome fic floating around this fandom is hot. The participants are hot, so it's pretty hard for it not to be (except when it's poorly written, and, well, that's just a fact of fandom, eh?) But yes, I tend to be pretty darned invested in my OTP and thus find it hard to make an emotional connection with the characters in most of these stories. I'm not really reading for characterization. Generally. There are exceptions.
*snip* my OTP needs to stand out. *snip* I need to believe that while Daniel or Jonas or whoever touches Sam as well, her mind is more with Jack.
Yep. Yep. Yep. For it to be more than merely a sexy read I totally, totally agree.
Not that I don't enjoy a sexy read every now and again *grins shamelessly*
Those fics are rare. Most multiple partner fics have Sam tied to Daniel and/or Daniel tied to Jack. And I'm sorry but I don't see either pairings. I just simply don't and never will.
I just read a fic set in season 5 where Sam was in love with Daniel and was merely attracted to Jack cause he's such an attractive guy. Dude. No. No. No. That is not my Sam. For me that tends to be my issue with threesome/slash in this fandom or at least the little I've read (I shouldn't stereotype based on so little but I gather from others it's a common problem) Sam is so incredibly poorly characterized. She ends up as a silly girl and it drives me nuts. Just like you can't see Jack being willing to share, I can't see Sam willing to share either. And I do not buy that Sam has seen the attarction between Jack and Daniel (ahem, probably because *I* don't really see it.) and is okay with it and is understanding and always, always, always dismisses her feelings for Jack as clearly mere infatuation in the face of his true love for Daniel, and isn't she lucky she gets one night in the middle of all their looooooovvvvve.
Ahem. Sorry. That makes me really mad. Mad for Sam, mad on behalf of women in general, just mad.
Maybe the problem is that most threesomes are written by slasher and just the idea of Daniel and Jack humouring Sam appals me.
Yes. Makes me sick and makes me hate Jack and Daniel, and I like them (well, I find Daniel annoying, but I like Jack). I don't think they're that cruel. Could you imagine if the shoe was on the other foot and someone wrote Sam and Jack humouring Daniel? No way. Completely out of character.
Another thing that makes me unreceptive towards it is my view of Jack. I see him as the possessive type. I find it hard to imagine Jack sharing Sam in any way. I seem him more likely to hit Daniel a nice shiner for even trying to touch her than I see him moving aside and giving Daniel a go at Sam (and I have read that and was utterly disgusted with Jack's behaviour).
Yep. And yep. And this is probably because I'm a shipper, but I think it's funny that in a lot of the threesome fic I've read and the small bit of slash, something that gets emphasized much more than in ship fic is Jack's alpha male nature. I guess in my little view of the world, this means nobody's touching Sam but Jack, and in their view that means . . . well, not that anyone but Jack's touching Daniel, because Sam's there. Huh. This conundrum is at the root of a lot of my problems. It ultimately, when I think it through, just seems out of character for Jack, for Sam, for Daniel.
Okay. I'll be quiet now. I will finish editing and post the fic that provoked this.
no subject
Date: 2004-04-18 11:28 am (UTC)Well, I still love ness's "Pretty People" (Sam/Jack, Sam/Jonas, Jack/Jonas, Sam/Jack/Jonas), but maybe it's just because it's so well written. While I don't do Sam/Daniel or Jack/Daniel, this somehow seems to work. And it's hot enough for me not to worry if I find it a little out of character.
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Date: 2004-04-18 12:06 pm (UTC)Heh, I'm kidding. I see your point.
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Date: 2004-04-18 12:20 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-04-18 12:22 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-04-18 01:35 pm (UTC)Katie M's "The Wrong Story" had Sam/Daniel/Jack, and the characters, to my mind, were totally off, but because it was a very different fic, and very well written, I just read it as a nice story, not caring that in my world they wouldn't or shouldn't.
no subject
Date: 2004-04-18 01:55 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-04-18 03:01 pm (UTC)Okay, I admit. I see the hobbit love too.
I'm not really reading for characterization. Generally. There are exceptions.
True, that's how I read most smut, not just threesomes. The better smut fics know how to bring real characters but most of the time you have to accept some amount of "out of character" to be able to read it. And yes, threesomes can be pretty hot ;o)
I just read a fic set in season 5 where Sam was in love with Daniel and was merely attracted to Jack cause he's such an attractive guy...Sam is so incredibly poorly characterized. She ends up as a silly girl and it drives me nuts...and isn't she lucky she gets one night in the middle of all their looooooovvvvve.
Dude, I hate that. That's exactly why I don't like most threesomes. Sam is so badly portrayed. There is this one fic out there where Jack goes out with Sam but can't stop thinking about Daniel on his date that he even has to go jerk off in the restrooms while Sam is being the dumb blonde with a crush and can't see he doesn't want her. This sooooooo annoys me. Or as you said, that Sam sees the love between DJ but still wants a piece. Oy.
Just like you can't see Jack being willing to share, I can't see Sam willing to share either.
*nods* I agree but if I have to be more open minded I think Sam would be more open to it than Jack. While I see Jack as the sexinator, I also see him a tad more conservative when it comes to things like that.
Could you imagine if the shoe was on the other foot and someone w
whoops way too long
Date: 2004-04-18 03:02 pm (UTC)*snickers* Maybe someone should write it *eg*
It ultimately, when I think it through, just seems out of character for Jack, for Sam, for Daniel.
Amen! *applauds*
Btw, alpha!jack is hot *g*
Oooo btw too, in your fic, maybe Jack is letting Daniel in cause it's one of Sam's kinks *giggles and runs off*
Two in one!
Date: 2004-04-18 03:29 pm (UTC)Yep. I'm so glad we agree. Though I've noticed I'm getting less and less willing to accept things that are out of character for no good reason.
Yes. Hot. Did I mention that at some point? Huh.
*snip* There is this one fic out there where Jack goes out with Sam but can't stop thinking about Daniel on his date that he even has to go jerk off in the restrooms while Sam is being the dumb blonde with a crush and can't see he doesn't want her.
Ack! *Covers eyes* Oh, that literally makes me nauseaous. Ew. Ack. Yuck. There are so many things wrong with that, starting with the fact that Jack is not a sex crazed idiot and Sam is not stupid. Ick. Man.
if I have to be more open minded I think Sam would be more open to it than Jack. While I see Jack as the sexinator, I also see him a tad more conservative when it comes to things like that.
He is the sexinator *nods.* I don't really see either of them being good with the sharing. Sam more likely than Jack? Sure.
Could you imagine if the shoe was on the other foot and someone wrote Sam and Jack humouring Daniel? No way. Completely out of character.
*snickers* Maybe someone should write it *eg*
Ahem.
"Daniel?" he turns and looks over his shoulder to see Sam and Jack holding hands that the door and sighs a little. Their love seems to radiate off them in waves and he feels his big blue eyes widen and tear a little. If only he could have one night to be a part of something that was so clearly destined by the fates.
"Sam's looking for some fun tonight. How 'bout it?" Daniel can hardly believe his luck. To be a part of it! Oh Joy! Oh bliss! He watches blissfully as Jack kisses Sam, their tongues all over the place.
He's so glad he's not actually in love with Jack, that they're only good friends. It makes it so much easier to be happy for his friend. Oh, and Sam. Yeah, sure, he's happy for her too.
He meekly approached as Jack begins to hump Sam. . . .
Sorry. Just creeped myself out there. *shudders*
Btw, alpha!jack is hot *g*
Yes, yes he is. Ahem.
Oooo btw too, in your fic, maybe Jack is letting Daniel in cause it's one of Sam's kinks *giggles and runs off*
Whatever floats your boat, sweetheart. Sure, that's it. *grins*
Re: Two in one!
Date: 2004-04-18 03:35 pm (UTC)I'm too much of a smuthussy to get picky ;o) *g*
Yes. Hot. Did I mention that at some point? Huh.
Hmmmmmm, not sure. I'll have to check again.
There are so many things wrong with that, starting with the fact that Jack is not a sex crazed idiot and Sam is not stupid. Ick. Man.
Totally agree. Even if I weren't a shipper I'd feel insulted by it.
I don't really see either of them being good with the sharing. Sam more likely than Jack? Sure.
No, me neither. Sam is a bit too much like Jack for that. Now Daniel, he's just an intergalactic hussy.
Sorry. Just creeped myself out there. *shudders*
*snorts* Duuuuuuuude! That was awesome! Esp love the tongues all over the place ;o)
Whatever floats your boat, sweetheart. Sure, that's it. *grins*
I knew it! *g* Ooooo and you called me sweetheart *giggles and runs off*
Re: Two in one!
Date: 2004-04-18 03:44 pm (UTC)Oh, heck yeah. I'll read it, I just might not read it more than 2 or 3 times. :D
There are so many things wrong with that, starting with the fact that Jack is not a sex crazed idiot and Sam is not stupid. Ick. Man.
Totally agree. Even if I weren't a shipper I'd feel insulted by it.
I was going to say any woman worth her salt would be insulted, then I realized if I were a guy I wouldn't like it much either so yeah, everyone works for me.
Now Daniel, he's just an intergalactic hussy.
Yes, yes he is. Doood. Just back off the OTP, man. :D
*snorts* Duuuuuuuude! That was awesome! Esp love the tongues all over the place ;o)
They sort of took a little walk around the room, the tongues did. *snort*
I knew it! *g* Ooooo and you called me sweetheart *giggles and runs off*
Sweetpea? Peach? Don't run! Come baaaaaack!! *g*
Re: Two in one!
Date: 2004-04-18 03:47 pm (UTC)*snickers*
Yes, yes he is. Doood. Just back off the OTP, man. :D
Yes! *glares at anyone trying to touch her OTP*
Btw, dood = death in dutch. Just thought you should know ;o)
They sort of took a little walk around the room, the tongues did. *snort*
Now that's kinky. Not to mention sticky and icky.
Sweetpea? Peach? Don't run! Come baaaaaack!! *g*
Now sweetpea sounds a bit icky. I'll take sweetheart *g* I'm still here.
And oh my, we're very wordy today.
Re: Two in one!
Date: 2004-04-18 03:51 pm (UTC)I knew that. And I like it like that. *snorkfle* Really? You must think I'm very strange. Huh. Yeah. Like that's it.
Now that's kinky. Not to mention sticky and icky.
Ew. Eww. You just gave me a mental image I didn't have before. Ew. They'd be all dusty and dirty and really, who wants to see two tongues sort of writhing their way across the floor all passionate-like. Ick.
Now sweetpea sounds a bit icky. I'll take sweetheart *g* I'm still here.
Good to know. *g*
And oh my, we're very wordy today.
Yes, yes we are.
Re: Two in one!
Date: 2004-04-18 03:54 pm (UTC)*g* Not stranger than anyone around here ;o)
Ew. Eww. You just gave me a mental image I didn't have before. Ew. They'd be all dusty and dirty and really, who wants to see two tongues sort of writhing their way across the floor all passionate-like. Ick.
*snorts* Ewwwww LMAO Ick! Dude, I'm torn between being disgusted and laughing my ass off. I love giving people mental images *g*
I'm afraid I'm gonna disappear within the next 8 minutes though to go watch Angel but I'll be back later. Prepare yourself.
Re: Two in one!
Date: 2004-04-18 03:56 pm (UTC)I'm afraid I'm gonna disappear within the next 8 minutes though to go watch Angel but I'll be back later. Prepare yourself
I have to go to a meeting, so I too will be gone. But at this meeting there will be pancakes, so I will deal.
Enjoy Angel and thanks for entertaining me. :)
Re: Two in one!
Date: 2004-04-18 03:58 pm (UTC)Thanks and you're welcome. Enjoy your meeting and the pancakes. *g*
no subject
Date: 2004-04-18 06:57 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-04-18 06:58 pm (UTC)Hey, EVERYBODY wants Jonas. Yes.
;D
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Date: 2004-04-18 07:10 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-04-18 08:16 pm (UTC)It sounds so interesting, from the random comments that you have posted about it from day to day, it's got me all intrigued.
Anyhow I hoep you had a slightly more productive day than I did :)
no subject
Date: 2004-04-18 08:58 pm (UTC)Thanks! *hugs*
My day was slightly productive but not as much as it should have been. Gah! Aren't they always?
no subject
Date: 2004-04-19 05:15 pm (UTC)Hm days are strange. You start off with all these wonderful plans for doing loads of work, the end of the day arrives and al you've done is written a title!