Religion and me

[woodface]

Ah, you know there seems to be a religious debate coming up. I should just stay far away from it but perhaps it's best to explain for once and for all why I don't believe and what my views on religion are.


I grew up in a catholic society. I spend 12 years of my life being taught about god and catholic religion. I did my communion, went to church and I believed. I was a very religious kid, more so than my sisters. I used to pray every evening before I went to bed. I loved reading my children's bible. I might not be an expert on religion, but I do know it to some degree.

I stopped believing one day. I don't know how, it just happened. Probably gradually. I just don't believe I will ever go back to it.

Why not? Because I hate to think that I would take on a religion to get redemption. To be free of my sins and end up in heaven. I refuse to better myself for a god and his promise to eternal life. I want to be the best person I can be for myself. I want to live for myself. And when I believe again, I want it to be for the faith itself and not for an ulterior motive.

I don't believe in the bible, not the way some people do. It's a text, written by humans with human flaws. It reflects the convictions of a society from over 2000 years ago. Sure, some basics still stand now and the world would be a better place if we followed it. But some things are really not applicable to this age anymore.

So, I don't believe. I don't deny or acknowledge the existance of god. I just stand beside religion because I need to believe in myself first. I admire people who draw strength from their faith. It's just not something that I will ever experience. Sometimes, I wish I could believe but I'd find myself a hypocrite to pray just in order to get something back. I'll probably go to hell for it, but then I would still go to hell for a lot of my behaviour. Then again, I don't believe in hell, so I'm not that bothered. I'd like to believe that I'm a good person despite not going to church.

The debate on homosexuality? I think I pretty much covered it when I talked about the bible here. I'd just want to get one thing of my chest. It hurts me to believe that people I care about (and in part myself too) are judged for it. And yes, perhaps you don't judge the person but if you believe their actions condemn them to hell (even if they don't believe in hell to begin with), that's judgement to me. I respect everyone's believes, you are free to think whatever you want. But I reserve the right to disagree as you are allowed to disagree with me. I'm sorry if this offended you, it's just how I see it.

Comments

[meeshy.livejournal.com]

I wrote a long waffle but it didn't make sense. So I'll just say nice to read your opinions :) (and people shouldn't get offended... if they do they just can't accept that people's viewpoints might differ or that *shock* they might be wrong!)

[woodface]

Thanks! Hey, whoever said that everything has to make sense? If you still feel like it, I'd love to read your opinions on it too. If not, that's fine too ;o)

*knuffels*

[meeshy.livejournal.com]

:) I mused over religion yesterday in Lydia's lj (with someone I didn't know!)

http://www.livejournal.com/users/lydkami/218451.html

*sigh* Though I'm slowly getting bored of some of the people on my friends list.... they make posts that judge others (for whatever reason) and I damn well don't like it!

[woodface]

Yeah, I see what's been said there. It's the whole judgement on principal that bugs me too. I'd like to believe what Lyta said here too.

I'm sad to hear about your friend list. *knuffels*

[mylo1012.livejournal.com]

:) I mused over religion yesterday in Lydia's lj (with someone I didn't know!)

hey i am Petra ,and very harmless ,trust me;)

[lytarules.livejournal.com]

*hugs* I like you the way you are. I think faith enriches a person's life, and I'm sorry you miss out on it for that reason, but pretending to believe things you don't doesn't enrich anyone or anything.

I also happen to believe that God has a broader definition of "believer" than humans do, and I think if He/She is big enough to accept Christians who mean well but have a faulty understanding, God is also big enough to accept people who search for what I think are the defining characteristics of God and yet don't call Her/Him "God". Truth. Love. Justice. Compassion. People who find ways to lift others up, to make the world a better place in some tiny way.

So I believe that someday you'll be standing beside me in heaven, along with some very surprised aetheist and Pagan friends of mine. (Isn't that smug of me? But it's what I really believe.) If I'm right, I have everything to gain, and if I'm wrong then I've found a source of life-long comfort that is far less destructive than money or alcohol or any of the other things that people sometimes center their lives on.

[woodface]

You know, I can live with your definition of believe. It's closer to my own and how I look at it.

*knuffels* Thanks for sharing your point of view and allowing me in your heaven ;o)

[meeshy.livejournal.com]

That has to be one of the nicer things people have said about religion recently :) Interesting read! :)

[audrich.livejournal.com]

Lyta, I love you and want to have your children.

[jemster.livejournal.com]

Hey! Me first! Besides, I'm closer. :-)

[jemster.livejournal.com]

If I'm right, I have everything to gain, and if I'm wrong then I've found a source of life-long comfort that is far less destructive than money or alcohol or any of the other things that people sometimes center their lives on.

And this, my friends, is the core of my belief as well.

Peter Woodward, who played Galen in Crusade (B5 spinoff that sunk) was speaking at a panel during last years DragonCon in Atlanta, GA. Peter is a confirmed Atheist and he briefly discussed his views. He knows several spiritual people and he says that they have something, some kind of peace that he doesn't posses. He doesn't know what it is, but there's something.

One of my favorite sayings is from Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), a french mathematician and philosopher... "If you believe in God and he exists you've lost nothing. But if you don't believe in God and he does exits you've lost everything."

[woodface]

He knows several spiritual people and he says that they have something, some kind of peace that he doesn't posses. He doesn't know what it is, but there's something.

Yeah, I know what he means.

"If you believe in God and he exists you've lost nothing. But if you don't believe in God and he does exits you've lost everything."

Well, that kinda goes with what I said earlier. I do not want to believe in order to gain anything or in fear of losing something.

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

One of my favorite sayings is from Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), a french mathematician and philosopher... "If you believe in God and he exists you've lost nothing. But if you don't believe in God and he does exits you've lost everything."

Someone whose name escapes me did point out though that "if I were God I'd make a whole new Hell for people who chose me on that basis."

Ah, Pascal's wager...

[jemster.livejournal.com]

Someone whose name escapes me did point out though that "if I were God I'd make a whole new Hell for people who chose me on that basis."

Ah, but they're not God, are they? ;-)

[tv-elf.livejournal.com]

What Lyta said.

I'm one of those wacky people who has never doubted, but I also believe that there is no "right" belief. Pagan, Wiccan, Muslim, Jew, Christian, whatever. We won't know until we die. (And I'm not in a hurry to do that) God knows what She's up to, it isn't my place to decide who goes where.

[woodface]

Very true.

Although I think god is a man. Otherwise we wouldn't get those bloody cramps every month ;o)

[tv-elf.livejournal.com]

{g} Also very true.

[jemster.livejournal.com]

God in neither. God is both. ;-)

looong reply!

[saramund.livejournal.com]

I'm one of those wacky people who has never doubted, but I also believe that there is no "right" belief

Seems like there's a few of us out there that think like that. I've always believed in God, and in 'heaven' (however you like to imagine heaven). But I believe that how you revere Him (Through church, prayer, etc) isn't important, so long as you are intrinsically a good person (kind, compassionate, giving, thoughtful, loving, caring yadda yadda yadda). To me if you are that kind of person, then I don't think God is going to boot you just 'cause you didn't go to church.

I was actually thinking about this on the way to work this morning (must have been psychically linked, or something) and realised that while I don't get on my knees and say five 'Our Fathers', I do pray. Everytime I say 'thank you' (that could be to a person, or just outloud when things go well) or smile at a work colleague, donate to charity - It's not ritualised, formalised, but it's still (to me, anyway) a form of prayer.

I always think back to the saying: Doing evil in the name of good is still Evil. Doing good in the name of Evil is still good. - you can translate that into basically what we're talking about now.

Hmm - always interesting to have a philosophical debate on line. Am now going to wait for flames to warm me.

Bec.

Re: looong reply!

[woodface]

Flames? Why should you get flames for this?

I think it's a great way to look at religion and while I don't believe anymore, this is how I looked at things and in a way still do.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts!

Re: looong reply!

[saramund.livejournal.com]

I don't know, probably because I feel like I should get flames.

Maybe I'm jewish with all the guilt (ooh, lookit ma, a stereotype!). There are times when I envy people who have the kind of faith that I've seen on lj lately - when I wish I could have that kind of faith.

Anyway, this is all WAY too deep to be thinking on a FRIDAY morning!

It's FRIDAY!

[hwconundrum.livejournal.com]

Just a brief 'hear, hear' on what you said - personally I'm of the opinion that the Bible is inherently flawed and cannot be taken absolutely word for word since it was written by humans and not by God Him/Her/Itself, but then again I'm an atheist so in theory it's not an issue anyway. ;)

Oh, and on another note this wee adventure has shown to me the occasional virtue of browsing through other peoples' friends pages just for the hell of it. :P

[woodface]

personally I'm of the opinion that the Bible is inherently flawed and cannot be taken absolutely word for word since it was written by humans and not by God Him/Her/Itself

That's not even starting to consider that we only know translations of the original texts and the many books that were thrown out and considered unorthodox... ;o)

Oh, and on another note this wee adventure has shown to me the occasional virtue of browsing through other peoples' friends pages just for the hell of it.

*laughs* Sometimes it can be rewarding.

[lydkami.livejournal.com]

I understand your opinion and really share it in lots of points.

just wanted to say that :)

[woodface]

Thanks