Meme

[woodface]

Well this is fitting as I just saw a documentary about the rise of the puritan movement in the US. Who the fuck gives people a right to decide how high their frakking pants must be?

True Story. A religion teacher assigned her class an essay on what makes a good Christian. One student wrote about praying nightly, say no to abortion, banning gay marriage, and donating money. The other student wrote about talking to God and allowing people to enjoy their lives, and supporting gay marriage. The day the teacher was to hand the papers back, she called up the second student and told him she would pray for him when he went to hell. The student asked why would he be going to hell, and why he got an F on his paper. The teacher told him that Catholisim is against gay marriage. The student looked at her for a minute, then said aloud, "I'm gay." The teacher kicked him out of class as if he had said fuck. A girl in the back of class who had a boyfriend and was obviously straight got up and left too.

If you would leave the classroom, repost this. It doesn't matter if you're straight, bi, or gay. It doesn't matter if you're catholic or not. Everyone is a human being and deserves happiness.

You know what? I can't for the life of me even remember if any religion teacher ever gave us any homework. My religion classes were about morals and vague guidelines. In our last year, our teacher even included filosophy in his classes. I hardly doubt any teacher would get it into his head to make us write a frakking essay.

Secondly, religious people can bite me. Okay, not everyone, but the ones who think that because they believe they've got it right that they must convert the entire world to their point of view. Seriously, if you're happy with your religion and it gives your life meaning that you would not have found otherwise? Great, I applaud you. Good for you. If however that religion comes with the ultimate purpose that you have to save every human being from hell and impose your morals on them? Then frak off. Do whatever the hell you want to do with your life, but leave other people out of it. Let everyone make their own decisions and even if they go against your morals, it doesn't matter, it's their right to screw up and go to hell.

Comments

[meeshy.livejournal.com]

If however that religion comes with your ultimate person that you have to save every human being from hell and impose your morals on them? Then frak off. Do whatever the hell you want to do with your life, but leave other people out of it. Let everyone make their own decisions and evne if they go against your morals, it doesn't matter, it's their right to screw up and go to hell.

Abso-frakking-lutely!
We had a friend who wasn't religious, he found the local christian union and was okay for a while - very enthusiastic about his new found religion etc... which we all coped with. We rolled our eyes a bit when N went on one of his "oh my gosh the christian union is the best thing thats ever happened to me" speeches... and then he decided to impose his beliefs on us. Telling friends in the group that they were going to burn in hell for having pre marital sex etc. He wonders why none of us kept in contact with him once we left school?! Though it's made life easy for me coming out so late to my friends - they understand totally why I didn't say anything in sixth form with him in our midst!

And for the record, if I'm going to hell for being gay?

BRING IT ON! *G*

[woodface]

Ugh.

Dude, have you seen what freaks are going to heaven? I don't think I want to be there.

[meeshy.livejournal.com]

Dude... what if people in hell are as hot as Starbuck.....

[woodface]

*packs her bags*

[amykay73.livejournal.com]

Secondly, religious people can bite me. Okay, not everyone, but the ones who think that because they believe they've got it right that they must convert the entire world to their point of view.

{Applauds} Well said. Nothing fires me up more than hearing stories about little-minded religious freaks. I was raised Catholic, but I am now non-practicing. One of the few times I went to church about four years ago the priest was giving the Sermon about Jesus stopping the stoning of the bad woman. As he was droning away and I was half-listening, I thought he was going to go with the standard 'Don't throw stones if you live in glass houses' speech, but instead he says that as good Catholics we need to stone any and all of the 'bad' people out there. I bring this story up to my mother whenever she starts the 'It's a shame you don't go to church anymore' speech.

[woodface]

*blinks* I don't think he got the meaning of the story.

[sjshipper.livejournal.com]

Oh dear...nervously contemplates minding her own business...but *gently* says: Sometimes, when a person of faith knows and cares deeply for a friend or family member, it is an expression of that love to share her faith, respectfully and without condemnation. (If you knew something wonderful, and believed it would save you from pain and suffering, wouldn't you /want/ to share it with those you love most?) But I know what you're talking about. I rode pub. transportation to a concert last weekend and encountered a guy on the corner with a bull horn and signs, prolaiming teh ee-vul that is Harry Potter, and how everyone who reads it is all depraved and going straight to hell. wtf? Plus my in-laws were very wacky-religious, strict and hypocritical in the way the raised my husband, and as a result he is bitter and cynical about God, etc. So I can see where most folks would be wary of anyone coming at them w/ a Bible. Eek!

[woodface]

See, I can see what you mean. I can understand the good intentions behind it. However, it still feels like a condemnation because no matter what you say, you still think that part of the person is sinful. If anyone comes up to me and tells me that they're worried about the fact that I find Kara hot and that I'll end up in hell because of it? No matter how gentle it is being said or how good the intentions behind it are, it still feels like you're being judged. I think if you really love that person? You won't bring it up.

*sighs* I have huge issues with this subject. No matter how much I try to respect anyone's right to think homosexuality is evil, it will keep bugging me.

[amykay73.livejournal.com]

That's why it shocked me so much. Granted I don't read the bible much, but I interpreted that scene a bit differently than he did. Even my mother who ignores a lot that comes up regarding the Catholic church admitted that he and his sermon were a bit strange.

[woodface]

The american catholic church scares me.

[tv-elf.livejournal.com]

Blink, blinkity blink. Ok, sorry, I don't get that. (Both sides really.) I'm Christian, and proud of it. I talk about my beliefs when I can just because I can't not. Yet, I would NEVER use it as a chance to tell someone they are sinful. Because it isn't my right. God and each person can work it out themselves. All I can do is love each person and treat them with respect.

[woodface]

If everyone was like that, there wouldn't be any problems.

[nandamai]

Sounds kind of urban-legendy to me. (This happened to a friend of a friend of a friend.) But beyond whether it's true or not, I think it might be important to note here that religion is not taught as a subject in our public (state-funded) schools. That had to have been a private school, presumably a Christian school, and private schools have a lot more leeway to do whatever the hell they want. If the student(s) and parents don't like it, they can send their child elsewhere. By continuing to pay the tuition, they are saying that they approve of the way the school is teaching their child.

Not that I approve of what the teacher did, because I don't. And I too hate proselytizing -- it's just not anybody else's business what I believe, and it's incredibly arrogant to suggest that you know better than I do what my religious beliefs should be -- but then I come from a tradition that does not proselytize. It's different if you've grown up being told it is god's work to convert the heathen. I don't think that makes it any less offensive, personally, but I do understand why some people truly believe they are doing a good thing when they attempt to show others the way.

[woodface]

It could very well be a made up story, but I agreed with the sentiment and felt like ranting so it seemed like a good excuse. *whistles*

My entire education has been spend at catholic institutions. This meant that I have all my life had religion classes, every semester would close with going to the church, every few years we would go on "reflection" with the entire class for a few days and every lunch we had to say a prayer before eating. Yet, not once in my life have I seen any teacher pass judgement (except for the crazy woman who thought Mother Theresa was a bitch). We were taught christian values, but most of all it seems they just tried to teach us morals. Actually, it's during one of those reflection thingies that a friend of mine confessed to the entire class that she was gay. So for me, even knowing what the church's view is on homosexuality, I still am sometimes surprised to see how many people do agree with it. (And yet, I shouldn't be, because I know first hand how people can respond.)

I can understand why people might think that they're actually helping, but I also think that someone should tell them that what they're doing is actually pretty lousy. Good intentions, sadly enough, aren't always right.

[nandamai]

Dude, we are talking fundamentalist Christians here. It's a leeetle different than your experience in Catholic schools. Of course I think the fundies are full of crap, but I'm hardly surprised that there might be intolerance in one of their schools. You'd probably find intolerance in a goodly number of Catholic schools, as well. You just lucked out.

[woodface]

I know. Things liek this make me realise that. *sighs*

[lisayaeger.livejournal.com]

Somehow, if there really is a hell, I suspect I'll be in damn good company.

[woodface]

Hot company too. *g*

[lisayaeger.livejournal.com]

LOL!!! Most definitely true!!

[alliesings.livejournal.com]

The teacher told him that Catholicisim is against gay marriage.

It does sound by this line that she was specifically giving Roman Catholic teachings. In that case, the parents are paying the teacher to teach, indoctrinate, however you want to call it. When I was in college learning to teach, I was taught to put a Biblical teaching in every lesson possible, whether it be literature, history, science, or even math. (We did a Bible study for every math chapter.) When I was hired to teach, that is what the administration expected me to do.

It sounds to me like the student who failed the paper was attempting to make a statement. Unfortunately, schools like that don't appreciate statements like that. I can't defend the teacher's tactlessness, but I can understand her heart. A teacher in a Christian school will often spend hours in the course of a year praying for her students. This student may have shown rebelliousness in other areas, giving the teacher the idea that there was a problem.

I think it is dangerous for religious groups to make sweeping generalizations about which other groups are going to Hell. I believe in a literal Hell, but I don't find myself qualified to make a list of its future inhabitants.

[woodface]

Bible study in math? I'm curious how that would work.

*sighs* Generalisations are always dangerous.

[sjshipper.livejournal.com]

*whoops* I guess I did not take the entire scope of your post into consideration...with reference to the judgement mentality on homosexuality, then you're right..no matter how someone phrases it, it's going to sound judgmental. I don't think anyone has the right to tell you it's wrong. Esp. the Christian right(wing). (Besides, how can finding Kara hot /possibly/ be wrong =}'

I was talking more in general/positive sense, ie. "I have this great source of strength, comfort, encouragement, let me share it with you." Not so much, "Let me tell you the error of your ways so you can repent."